JonL 17 Nov 2004
Any advice on which is a better buy - Paramo Aspira Smock, Paramo Velez Smock, of Buffalo Big Face (assuming use is for walk-ins and climbing). Has anyone owned both Paramo and Buffalo?
TN 17 Nov 2004
In reply to JonL:
I have a buffalo (mountain shirt, I think) and a paramo velez smock. The buffalo is fine - very comfy, sleeves are nice and long - but a bit warm for me most of the time. The velez is superb and by preference I'd go with paramo BUT I'm not familiar with the buffalo jkt you mentioned so that's probably very different...
Ridge 17 Nov 2004
In reply to JonL:
Good question, and one I've been pondering. I've a Paramo Cascada Jacket, which is excellent, but could do with a smock, so I've been considering a Velez.
Based on my experience with the Cascada, it won't be anywhere near as warm as a Buffalo/Montane, but will be waterproof. This isn't a problem for me, but may be for the less sweaty individual.
As regards the Velez as opposed to Aspira, the Velez doesn't have all the 'technical' features of the Aspira, but also doesn't cost anything like as much. Anyone with an Aspira think it's worth so much more, given as it's ostensibly the same material?
steev 17 Nov 2004
In reply to JonL:
I was thinking of getting an Aspira, but ended up getting a Montane Extreme (basically the same as the buffalo) because it was cheap. It's a very warm bit of clothing, so is ace for winter climbing, but only really gets used for that. I'd probably prefer a Paramo jacket for a bit more versatility.
OP JonL 17 Nov 2004
In reply to TN: The Big Face the same as the Special 6 with a crotch strap - so basically the same as the mountain but with a Pertex 6 shell
TN 17 Nov 2004
In reply to JonL:
In that case (and I don't do any serious winter stuff) I am usually too warm in the Buffalo, but I have been a tad chilly in the Paramo. Also, I think the Paramo keeps me dryer than the buffalo.
Cambridge Iceman17 Nov 2004
In reply to JonL: I have both. The buffalo is a lot warmer, but less verstile as I dislike being wet (even if warm) and it cannot be worn except in the coldest circ*mstances.
I'm trying to sell the buffalo (42 chest, big face shirt, if you're interested) and will be wearing the paramo aspira with a fleece instead this winter.
Ben Williams17 Nov 2004
In reply to Ridge:
I reckon the Aspira looks better. There is probably a bit of difference, but 100 squids worth of difference? I dont think so....
Ben
FunkyNick 17 Nov 2004
In reply to Ridge: I believe the Aspira smock is supposed to be warmer than the Velez... but I couldn't work out quite why...
On the Paramo site though they do only show the Paramo as suitable for multi-activity, things like climbing, cycling etc... whereas the Aspira is listed as being for mountain sport use... with only 90g difference in weight between them, and the Aspira having more zips etc..
So I am not sure what exactly the difference in warmth is!
I have a Velez and a Montane Extreme, and the Montane is warmer, unsuprisingly, as you say... although I have yet to try out the Velez in anything approaching really cold weather so can't really say how they will actually compare yet. Although I have my fingers crossed for this weekend up in Scotland...
almost sane18 Nov 2004
In reply to JonL:
When I went to the shop, the only Paramo jacket with a hood that went over my helmet was the Aspira. I didn't get it though - too little money in my pocket.
I have worn Paramo trousers and Montane pile/pertex jacket, and for me in Scotland I found the Paramo better most of the time. In a downpoor the pile/pertex top got saturated. I still stayed warm as advertised, but I was carrying a lot of extra weight, and water ran down into my gloves and into my boots. So I would now take a light waterproof if I had the pile/pertex, which I don't need for the Paramo.
Also, the pile/pertex was quite warm, and coped poorly with the range of weather conditions on a Scottish winter hill day, ie it can be mild at the start of the walk and baltic at the top.
But I tend to run warm when walking and then run cold at rest, so I need lots of layers.
Mart Ford18 Nov 2004
In reply to almost sane: By Paramo trousers do you mean the Aspiras fitted with braces? Thinking of getting some of the salopettes for multi-use eg. winter, apline, plus skiing. Any useful comments?
Scottish19 Nov 2004
In reply to Mart Ford:
I have the Paramo Sallys (old style) and they are the mutz nutz!!!!!!!! I also have the old Nevada smock. I alos have a Montane Extreme! the Best combination i find for climing is the Paramo Sallys with the Montane top + V-lightweight waterproof top. Something like the lowe alpine rush or similar, for when the rain will not stop!!!!!
I find that this gives the best allround performance.
I've been using my system now for 5 years and am never cold or wet!!!!!
S
eimaj19 Nov 2004
In reply to JonL: I use the Aspira smock and it the best bit of kit i have ever bought,i use it for walking,climbing,snowboarding n walking the dog!
Keeps you dry and warm has good breathability and great front and underarm vent offs.The smock is used by the R.A.F and numerious fell rescue teams so it must be good.A good place to buy online is www.outdoorworldltd.co.uk
Ridge 19 Nov 2004
In reply to eimaj:
But is it worth £££££££'s more than a Velez smock for underarm zips, a couple of plastic D rings and a bigger hood?
Jiffy 19 Nov 2004
In reply to Ridge:
Well, I've just upgraded to an Aspira smock from the Velez. I've not used it yet so can't offer any real life experience yet.
Main reason for upgrading was that, for some reason, I cannot get along with the hood on the Velez. Most folk seem to like it but it seemed determined to twist my head off.
Oh, and I wanted a red one!
eimaj19 Nov 2004
In reply to Ridge: The Aspira has tougher fabric up the arms and over the shoulders so will probably last longer if you crawl around alot!,the underarm vents do work very well if you are overheating.So if you have the cash go for the Aspira
TN 19 Nov 2004
In reply to Jiffy:
>
> Oh, and I wanted a red one!
You can get the Velez in red - I know, 'cos I've got one...
Jiffy 19 Nov 2004
In reply to TN:
Shhhh! With a bank balance as bad as mine, I need every excuse I can get!
almost sane19 Nov 2004
In reply to Mart Ford:
> (In reply to almost sane) By Paramo trousers do you mean the Aspiras fitted with braces? Thinking of getting some of the salopettes for multi-use eg. winter, apline, plus skiing. Any useful comments?
I got the trousers with braces, and with the foam inserts.
the foam seat is a boon for those winter belays.
I chose the trousers because they are not so warm as the salopettes. This means I can wear them comfortably on days when I would bake in salopettes. If I was doing dedicated cold weather stuff, I would seriously consider the salopettes.
54ms 20 Nov 2004
CCC in Hathersage has cheap Paramo gear in at the moment, including I belive the Velez smock.
OP JonL 22 Nov 2004
In reply to JonL:
Thanks everyone for all of your comments.
Over the weekend I decided to go for the Aspira Smock (ouch!)and couldn't be happier. After trying on the Velez, I was convinced that it would pull out of my harness climbing and the hood is not roomy enough nor is the overall cut of the smock really suitable for mountaineering. The Velez has probably been designed with mountain biking in mind.
Storm14 Dec 2004
In reply to JonL:
I just bought the Velez in black online for £140 from a place called Action Outdoors .... I bought it for Mountain Biking though and I feel this was probably what it was intended for as it has a slightly lower bit at the back? to stop mud spray I presume?
One question, the velez, you can buy treatments for them but do they come pre-treated or do you have to waterproof them when you get them?
Cheers
gwilym 14 Dec 2004
In reply to Storm: they come pre-treated
TN 14 Dec 2004
In reply to Storm:
They're ready to wear.
When you do need to reproof them, use the soap free detergent and then the wash in proofing - works a treat.
Iain Ridgway14 Dec 2004
In reply to JonL: I wear both on very cold days, supposedly you should only wear a paramo over a buffalo as its about the only fabric which is breathble enough.
But thats very warm, normally for plateaus, late nights out in the hills etc, extended belays.
charlie59814 Dec 2004
In reply to JonL: Instead of paying silly prices for paramo check out cioch clothing on Skye, it's the only other place to use Nikwax material so not a lot of difference and is a bit on the cheaper side
ALF 15 Dec 2004
In reply to JonL: bit of a hijack this, I've got an Aspira jacket that I'm very happy with but, got cold in it on Scafell last time I was up there, wearing a Craghoppers base layer and ME mid weight fleece. In similar weather with my ME ultrafleece and Drilite jacket I didn't feel the cold. I suspect this is partly to do with the hem drawcord, however, I'm considering getting a Paramo Mountain vent shirt and was wondering how they compare to fleece?
Nick
Ridge 15 Dec 2004
In reply to ALF:
Not familiar with the mountain vent shirt, assume it's like the old shirt but with pit zips?
I have a Paramo explorer pullover, very nice at doing what it does, but it's not as warm as a mid-weight fleece. Wouldn't think the mountain vent shirt would be any warmer at all. Problem(?) with Paramo is the jackets aren't designed for warmth, they're just warmer than other jackets due to their construction, which makes them, (IMHO), unsuitable for use in warm weather. This seems to have got translated into 'Paramo jackets are designed to keep you warm in cold weather' - which they're not.
The Paramo range of layers work extremely well with the jackets for wicking away sweat and condensation, but I would think anything warm and breathable would do. I've not noticed any deterioration in performance when using a fleece in preference to the paramo pullover.
In short - any fleece will do. I like Paramo jackets, but the range of shirts, fleeces etc they do seem very overpriced and gimmicky.
Simon Wells15 Dec 2004
In reply to JoIn reply to JonL:
I've used both, and still have them, with out making a conscious decision I always wear my paramo, but carry my buffalo belay jacket as an extra layer. It dries out the parama and keeps you warm, while not being affected by the weather. Something my rab kinder fails to!
nL:
Ridge 15 Dec 2004
In reply to Simon Wells:
Buffalo over the Paramo?
Simon Wells15 Dec 2004
In reply to Ridge:
Paramo smock, the business, don't wear the shirt, but carry the belay jacket rather than down top, so I guess paroma 1st, buffalo 2nd
Ridge 15 Dec 2004
In reply to Simon Wells: Let me rephrase. You wear your Buffalo on top of your Paramo when it's cold?
Simon Wells15 Dec 2004
In reply to Ridge:
I wear my belay jacket over the paramo in place of a down jacket, so on belays, lunch stops, teaching climbing. The two would be to hot when moving!
under the paramo i wear a icebreaker merino wool top, mayber a powerdstretch fleece if very cold.
Ridge 15 Dec 2004
In reply to JonL:
Cheers, just had it stuck in my head that the Paramo should be the top layer. Can see the logic behind doing it your way though, especially using the buffalo to wick the outer of the paramo dry.
captain paranoia 15 Dec 2004
In reply to TN:
> use the soap free detergent
I'm sure you mean 'detergent-free soap'. i.e. a soap-based cleaner. Any detergent is a no-no.
unclemidge22 Dec 2004
I have a velez and an aspira (why i ask myself with hindsight) and I must say there is little difference in warmth of he garments, and no difference whatsoever in the waterproofness. I do like both, but the velez is much more versatile....must say the hood is crap though. The hood of the aspira is enormous, and very good by way of all round vision.
Jiffy 22 Dec 2004
In reply to unclemidge:
Agreed! I have a Velez but recently bought an Aspira smock after being cheesed off with the Velez hood.
Jez Burkinshaw28 Dec 2004
I have been reading the forum with some interest. I have stumbled across it while searching for paramo links. I am considering getting a velez smock for running in the winter. I have a buffalo special 6 shirt which is good but it does get soggy because I sweat such a lot. (whatever I wear I sweat a lot) Does the velez really shift sweat well? Would it be too hot for running (hotter than a buffalo?)
Sorry not a climbing question but on the same lines.
Ridge 28 Dec 2004
In reply to Jez Burkinshaw:
Velez should certainly be cooler than a Buffalo, although it might not be able to shift sweat fast enough if you're running. Depends on temperatures you're running in, but I'd have thought both would be too warm. Maybe you'd be better with just a pertex windproof over a wicking tee or long-sleeve shirt?
Rockhoonds 28 Dec 2004
In reply to Jez Burkinshaw: definatly too hot for running in even in winter.... mebbe try a power stretch top n a winproof thing ive found it a good combination 4 orienteering in v cold wet conditions...
Jez Burkinshaw28 Dec 2004
In reply to Ridge:
Thanks for the replies. I have tried various combinations of wicking t-shirts, fleeces, waterproof tops etc. I have had my buffalo for going on 10 years perhaps and I am looking for a replacement/ addition to my kit wardrobe for really cold runs.
I am training for a marathon again and sometimes I am out for 3 hours. I live near Holmfirth (ie fairly high up and cold wind and rain usually in winter) and some of my runs go into the hills. Unfortunately I am not a spring chicken any more and my pace is not olympic standard and therefore I like to make sure I have enough to keep warm if I have to slow down.
I like the idea of a properly waterproof top for the really wet runs. I usually wear the buffalo next to the skin and then vent it via the side zips for cooling.
Would I be wasting my money on a velez then?
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